Thursday, September 29, 2005
Email conversation - Evolution & Intelligent Design
Love4theWord
to Gaston
(i'd asked Dion if we could continue our conversation off line via email, and I'd also asked his permission to use this conversation on my blog) I've shaded my responses Red
Sep 27 (2 days ago)
On 9/26/05, Gaston Garcia wrote:
thanks, yes, I understand you.
Kool. Glad you took the time to write to me!
:) it's very wise what you're doing. There are times when I've also felt that "the right thing" is leaving a thread. You're a good example to me with what you're doing. I've actually felt sometimes I've disobeyed the Spirit by not leaving certain threads.
I must confess it is the most difficult thing about the Ooze. Someone says something and you know that you're being baited... and you type like a hundred angry bees clack clack on the keyboard... and it's not good for you.. but I'm not sure I'm that great an example, I've posted like twice or thrice after I said I was done!!!
I'm not totally sure what I believe of evolution/creation. My family background is a pretty funky one. My mom is a preschool teacher and she's also got psicology studies. My dad's an intelectual architect/ex-hippie. AND my stepdad (whith whom I lived since I was like 11 to when I was like 24) is an engeneer and an egyptologist. lol
I am a firm believer in Creation and a Creator. Just as I cannot imagine a watch without a watch maker, I cannot imagine a world without a world maker. Now one of the best books to read on this whole subject is "Genesis Creation & Early Man" by Fr. Seraphim Rose
Link here: http://www.holycross-hermitage.com/mall/BookStore/genesis.asp
He posits (and I agree) that Post Fall man cannot know anything with any intelligence, accuracy about the Pre Fallen World. Because the very nature of the Fall sundered not only man but Nature.
From my mom's side of the family I learned traditional Catholic values. I learned from my grandmother about communion and about confession, and about God. My mom always let her kids "believe whatever they wanted." In this sense, growing up in my house was really great. There were no "obligations" whatsoever.
From my dad I learned more of a holistic universe view. He taught me to appretiate different kinds of people, religions and beliefs. (This from my mom too.) Sorta hippyish LOVE RULES. Which I think is great btw.
And then from my stepdad I learned to value scientific knowledge. From him I learned that it's beautiful when mankind discovers stuff. Tests it, and finds it true. Also from him a respect to science and scientists, who have the discipline to many times say "I was wrong, new data has come up...I'm moving forward."
Based on my views vis a vi Fr. Rose, It is possible that the best we can come up with our limited views about data Pre-Fall would look to us like Evolution. But it is not the scientific underpinnings of Evolution that I find offensive, but the philosophy or paradigm (world-view).
Anyways, so the thing is that being 100% honest with you. What I currently believe is a pretty mixed up version of a lot of things. I'm certainly NOT sure about anything.
I believe that no matter what theory, God created the universe. ID, evolution, whatever, God created everything. His wisdom is in everything. As for the specifics, I know I'm not sure.
Western Christianity spawned something called Scholasticism (see here = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism ), which is why so many Western Christians feel it is vitally important that you have all your beliefs Correct.. I don't think God cares so much about where we stand with Creation / Evolution as much as he cares about us Baring One another's Burdens and loving the World like Christ.
Regarding death before the fall. That's a very interesting right there. I have never devoted my time to even thinking about that point.
It does make you think man. It certainly does. Btw, would you mind if I used this email conversation in my blog?
Thanks for writing brother. sorry if I wrote too much.
Nonsense. Love ya bro. Seraphim
-Dion
Dion added this:
Gaston Garcia
to me
More options Sep 27 (2 days ago)
I don't think God cares so much about where we stand with Creation / Evolution as much as he cares about us Baring One another's Burdens and loving the World like Christ.
Thanks seraphim. Eventually, that's all that matters. Last night I was listening to an mp3 of Rob Bell (velvet elvis), and he said "look, we can know lots of scripture, and lots of greek words... etc.. But at the end, the only thing that matters is if we practice the teachings of Jesus.
Thanks for writing bro
-Dion
And he also says this:
But then I think that knowing in our hearts that following God is what matters, and agreeing that there is a creation and a Creator, I find that I will still pursue having an open mind to the various possibilities there might be regarding HOW creation came to be.
You see, even if I believe evolution or whatever weird story I want, I will still believe that God was the creator of everything. I like yourself strongly believe that God is the creator. In fact, I find no sense in the universe when I try to think that there is no God.
So maybe it all comes down to simply arguments about a "how" creation came to be. At least for me, that's all there is to it. It's just a quest for knowledge and intelectual satisfaction, coming to a point where I feel secure about my thoughts regarding the HOW stuff happened.
And since I do believe God made everything, and I do believe like you said that the most important thing is wether or not I follow God, I don't think it's wrong to pursue knowledge or at least a theory with which I'm happy with.
-Dion.
to Gaston
(i'd asked Dion if we could continue our conversation off line via email, and I'd also asked his permission to use this conversation on my blog) I've shaded my responses Red
Sep 27 (2 days ago)
On 9/26/05, Gaston Garcia
thanks, yes, I understand you.
Kool. Glad you took the time to write to me!
:) it's very wise what you're doing. There are times when I've also felt that "the right thing" is leaving a thread. You're a good example to me with what you're doing. I've actually felt sometimes I've disobeyed the Spirit by not leaving certain threads.
I must confess it is the most difficult thing about the Ooze. Someone says something and you know that you're being baited... and you type like a hundred angry bees clack clack on the keyboard... and it's not good for you.. but I'm not sure I'm that great an example, I've posted like twice or thrice after I said I was done!!!
I'm not totally sure what I believe of evolution/creation. My family background is a pretty funky one. My mom is a preschool teacher and she's also got psicology studies. My dad's an intelectual architect/ex-hippie. AND my stepdad (whith whom I lived since I was like 11 to when I was like 24) is an engeneer and an egyptologist. lol
I am a firm believer in Creation and a Creator. Just as I cannot imagine a watch without a watch maker, I cannot imagine a world without a world maker. Now one of the best books to read on this whole subject is "Genesis Creation & Early Man" by Fr. Seraphim Rose
Link here: http://www.holycross-hermitage.com/mall/BookStore/genesis.asp
He posits (and I agree) that Post Fall man cannot know anything with any intelligence, accuracy about the Pre Fallen World. Because the very nature of the Fall sundered not only man but Nature.
From my mom's side of the family I learned traditional Catholic values. I learned from my grandmother about communion and about confession, and about God. My mom always let her kids "believe whatever they wanted." In this sense, growing up in my house was really great. There were no "obligations" whatsoever.
From my dad I learned more of a holistic universe view. He taught me to appretiate different kinds of people, religions and beliefs. (This from my mom too.) Sorta hippyish LOVE RULES. Which I think is great btw.
And then from my stepdad I learned to value scientific knowledge. From him I learned that it's beautiful when mankind discovers stuff. Tests it, and finds it true. Also from him a respect to science and scientists, who have the discipline to many times say "I was wrong, new data has come up...I'm moving forward."
Based on my views vis a vi Fr. Rose, It is possible that the best we can come up with our limited views about data Pre-Fall would look to us like Evolution. But it is not the scientific underpinnings of Evolution that I find offensive, but the philosophy or paradigm (world-view).
Anyways, so the thing is that being 100% honest with you. What I currently believe is a pretty mixed up version of a lot of things. I'm certainly NOT sure about anything.
I believe that no matter what theory, God created the universe. ID, evolution, whatever, God created everything. His wisdom is in everything. As for the specifics, I know I'm not sure.
Western Christianity spawned something called Scholasticism (see here = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism ), which is why so many Western Christians feel it is vitally important that you have all your beliefs Correct.. I don't think God cares so much about where we stand with Creation / Evolution as much as he cares about us Baring One another's Burdens and loving the World like Christ.
Regarding death before the fall. That's a very interesting right there. I have never devoted my time to even thinking about that point.
It does make you think man. It certainly does. Btw, would you mind if I used this email conversation in my blog?
Thanks for writing brother. sorry if I wrote too much.
Nonsense. Love ya bro. Seraphim
-Dion
Dion added this:
Gaston Garcia
to me
More options Sep 27 (2 days ago)
I don't think God cares so much about where we stand with Creation / Evolution as much as he cares about us Baring One another's Burdens and loving the World like Christ.
Thanks seraphim. Eventually, that's all that matters. Last night I was listening to an mp3 of Rob Bell (velvet elvis), and he said "look, we can know lots of scripture, and lots of greek words... etc.. But at the end, the only thing that matters is if we practice the teachings of Jesus.
Thanks for writing bro
-Dion
And he also says this:
But then I think that knowing in our hearts that following God is what matters, and agreeing that there is a creation and a Creator, I find that I will still pursue having an open mind to the various possibilities there might be regarding HOW creation came to be.
You see, even if I believe evolution or whatever weird story I want, I will still believe that God was the creator of everything. I like yourself strongly believe that God is the creator. In fact, I find no sense in the universe when I try to think that there is no God.
So maybe it all comes down to simply arguments about a "how" creation came to be. At least for me, that's all there is to it. It's just a quest for knowledge and intelectual satisfaction, coming to a point where I feel secure about my thoughts regarding the HOW stuff happened.
And since I do believe God made everything, and I do believe like you said that the most important thing is wether or not I follow God, I don't think it's wrong to pursue knowledge or at least a theory with which I'm happy with.
-Dion.
